Even before the pandemic, Americans were experiencing a devastating loneliness epidemic. We talk to UX designer-turned-connection coach Kat Vellos about the longing for deep and meaningful friendships that so many of us experience, and how we can build deeper, more substantial connections in our adult lives.
Even before the pandemic, Americans were experiencing a devastating loneliness epidemic. We talk to UX designer-turned-connection coach Kat Vellos about the longing for deep and meaningful friendships that so many of us experience, and how we can build deeper, more substantial connections in our adult lives.
Kat Vellos is a connection coach, speaker, facilitator, and author on a mission to transform loneliness and “platonic longing” into authentic human connection. She is the author of two books: We Should Get Together: The Secret to Cultivating Better Friendships, and Connected From Afar: A Guide for Staying Close When You're Far Away.
When we think about connection, we often turn our lens outward, and it's really important first to look inside and say, what is it that you really need right now? And what is missing? If you can wave a magic wand and have the kind of connection you want, what would that look like, and how would it be integrated into your life? And the way you answer that question helps you determine what to do and where to go when you then turn your lens outward and seek to cultivate that connection externally with other people.
—Kat Vellos, author of We Should Get Together
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Plus: in this week’s You’ve Got This, Sara offers tips for how to foster joy. Where have you told yourself you shouldn't feel joyful? What is that costing you? What would be different in your life if you were operating from a place of joy? What would shift, what would change? For all this and more, check out https://www.activevoicehq.com/podcast.
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Kat Vellos 0:00 I think it's useful to have some passions that are purely for joy and not to pay your light bill. When it comes to finding work that's going to light you up or, like, create a path that you feel so excited to walk down, for me, that has been following my curiosity.
Sara Wachter-Boettcher 0:28 Hello, and welcome to Strong Feelings, the podcast all about the messy world of being a human at work. I'm your host, Sara Wachter-Boettcher, and today I'm talking with Kat Vellos. Kat first got on my radar from her work as a user experience designer at places like Pandora and Slack. But over the last year or so, I have been following her as she's become the go-to person on cultivating adult friendships and connectedness. She's even written some books about it, which we're going to talk about. She also coined this term "platonic longing," which I will let her explain more fully. But it's this concept of yearning for a friendship in a way that's maybe parallel to yearning for romance. It's so perfectly encapsulating something I've heard about, and I've felt myself: that desire to be seen, to be understood, and to be deeply connected to a friend. Yeah, platonic longing. I bet some of you felt that too. And in thinking about that term, you know, I can really reflect on friendships I've had where I've felt that connection, and it has been magical. And I've also had moments where I've lost that connection. And when I really reckon with that, I realize that those have been some of the most painful moments of my life. And I think what's really important about this is that friendship doesn't always get that kind of space to be considered as some of the most important relationships in your life and to be considered as something that can really stick with you and shape you. And so that's something I really love about this conversation with Kat. I love having more language and nuance around these concepts of friendship. And I love the way that that helps me understand myself, and my needs, and my boundaries in new ways.
SWB 2:07 And all of that extends to work, too, because in this interview, we talk a lot about workplaces and how they can create cultures where people feel safe and connected. And also how everyday practices can result in cultures where we feel disconnected and excluded. And right now, this is just so important, because, you know, almost everyone I talk to—my clients, my friends, like, random people on Twitter—everyone tells me that they're exhausted and they are tired of organizations that keep pushing ahead on deadlines and roadmaps as if nothing's changed. Or as if, like, "Yeah, yeah, pandemic. Yeah, yeah, take a week off. But also you should be able to work just at the pace you have been in the past." Oh, and that is not going to give people connection. That is going to make people leave. So if that's happening at your company right now, listen up, because Kat has some really beautiful insight on where true team connectedness actually comes from.
SWB 3:05 Kat Vellos is a speaker, author, designer, and community creator on a mission to help people build healthy and authentic connections. She's written two books, We Should Get Together: The Secret to Cultivating Better Friendships, and Connected From Afar: A Guide for Staying Close When You're Far Away, which came out during this pandemic. Kat, welcome to Strong Feelings.
KV 3:25 Hey, Sara, thanks so much for having me.
SWB 3:27 So happy to have you here. First up, what a time to focus on connection and disconnection. What led you to this place where this is your primary focus in life?
KV 3:36 Thanks for asking. You know, it feels quite remarkable to have felt the call and the pull to this area of focus when I did. So a little bit about me is, like, I have been working as a UX designer for a while. But I've always cared a great deal about human connection and have also always been a facilitator of community spaces, and groups, and things of that nature that bring people together around a common purpose and to find a greater sense of belonging. And as I was researching and writing my book, We Should Get Together, over the last five years or so, it was something that just became more and more evident that there was an unmet need in our society around friendship in adulthood and connection in adulthood. And so everything in the research that I was doing, and that I was finding out was leading me to this ultimate outcome, which was, like, people need support around this, and they need it now. The loneliness epidemic was already a thing before the pandemic, and then boom, the pandemic happens. And all of a sudden, it's like, "Oh, gosh, we can't meet up face to face, like, what are we going to do?" And suddenly, even more so, people realize how much we need each other.
SWB 4:47 Yeah, so what have you been learning as you've been continuing to research connection and friendship, I guess both before and then now during the pandemic?
KV 4:56 Interestingly, the United States has been experiencing a continually worsening loneliness epidemic since around the 1980s or so was the first time that phrase even appeared in print that I could find in my research. And the pace of our life in the digital age, the hypermobility of our cities and towns, and people moving all the time, and certainly before pandemic with tons of commutes and really long commutes, leads to this overall sense of busyness and stretch and strain that often makes it difficult to create the close, thriving friendships that we really need to feel that sense of strong social support. And so that was already an issue, certainly, before the pandemic. Of course, in the last year, we've all experienced both pluses and minuses with that. You know, for many people, they felt closer during the pandemic because there was so much more attention on connection, and so they were zooming, and phone-calling, and talking more with people. And for other people, it was actually isolating even more so because they maybe didn't already have strong social networks in their personal lives to tap into, and so they felt even more lonely and separated. And it's very, very important from a public health perspective and mental health, emotional health, physical health, why it's important that people have a strong social support network and a sense of belonging in their lives.
SWB 6:16 Mmm. What are some of the ways that that kind of loneliness and disconnection shows up for people? And I will preface that by saying that I know, you know, one challenge I've heard from people is that it's not always clear at first, like, what they're really feeling and it's just like, things feel bad. How do people sort of like work out what they're missing?
KV 6:35 For people, it's all so different. I want to clarify also that loneliness is not the same thing as, like, social isolation. These things are quite different, and loneliness tends to surface as kind of the feeling of, like, wanting a particular type of fulfillment when it comes to connection and not being able to get that need met. So introverts and extroverts have different needs for connection, people who like gaming and people who like reading books or whatever, like, have different needs for connection. And so, like, the way you want connection, which is unique to you, that is your gauge for whether or not maybe you may feel loneliness or not. And so when you know for yourself, like, "I need this, or I really wish I had that," and there's this longing, and you're like, "I'm not sure how to get that. Man, I don't know what to do to fix this." That's typically, what I call it in the book is "platonic longing." Because we don't really have a word for what it feels like when there's this hole in your life. Like, you're not quite sure how to fill it, but what's missing there is friendship, or a friend group. And we know we have words for that for relationships, like, people have "unrequited love," and they're like, wish they could have a partner, and it's very normal to talk about wishing for a romantic relationship. But it's not always been common or acceptable to talk about wishing for a friend or wanting that friendship. And so I think it's very important that we have language for that, which is why I coined the phrase "platonic longing," and it's a very specific kind of ache. You can have that and not necessarily feel lonely. You could have a very big family you spend a lot of time with. You could have great colleagues that you have positive relationships with, but then in your personal life still feel like the friendship piece is missing.
KV 8:10 So in terms of the impact in people's lives, when they have this kind of chronic sense of loneliness, or chronic sense of lack in the social connection area, all of this is correlated with high blood pressure, cardiovascular disease, declining cognitive function, certainly anxiety and depression, and then at the far end of that dementia, or even suicide. And so we knew before the pandemic, loneliness at that level was around just under 50% of the population, with one in four feeling like there's nobody they can talk to, or there's no one who understands them. And some of those numbers rose up until January of 2020, and then started to taper off, again, because there was more emphasis on reaching out to your people during the pandemic.
SWB 8:58 Well so, now, here we are, it's been, however many months of being in the pandemic and maybe potentially coming out of the pandemic. And I'm wondering, over that time period, for those people who have found a way to keep their friendships alive and thriving, for those people who are experiencing a lot of connection, what's working for them?
KV 9:18 Well, again, I think there, the attention on each other, the attention on checking in on your people, the attention on, you know, not just reaching out, but having other people reach out to you. And for many folks, they've had the opportunity to sort of customize in a way, like, the way that they are sharing time with people. So for example, one of my buddies, he's really big into Zoom. I'm not, but at the first few months of the pandemic, he was zooming with his best buddies from college every single week. And he said that they were literally talking more during the pandemic than they would if it was not happening because in their normal day-to-day life prior, they would never have, like, just spontaneously set up a weekly Zoom. For me, it turned into letter-writing. You know, like, I love analog life, I need to digital detox, I don't want to be attached to my computer every second. And so I have a very robust letter-writing ritual that I share with long-distance friends, like, faraway friends. And so taking a minor pen-paling habit, and putting it a little bit on steroids during the pandemic was part of coping for me. And so I think with the opportunity to evaluate, like, "What does connection look like in your life? What do you want it to look like? And what would feel really good?" is the invitation that we've had during this time of, you know, lack, and also during this time of transition. When we think about moving forward from here, what do you want it to look like? It's an invitation to be intentional, and not just, you know, run, run, run, go, go, go, do everything, feel burnt out, feel tired, but like, be choosy, pick the thing that's going to feel really fulfilling.
SWB 10:55 Yeah, I mean, as somebody who has long defaulted to a run, run, run, go, go, go and only recently realized how that did not have to be my sort of, like, defining approach to life, it's really powerful to hear you talking about that. And I'd actually love to go back in time a little bit because I know that the pandemic has been such a huge moment to be talking about connection, talking about loneliness, but your work in this space predates it by quite a bit. And I would love to hear a little bit more about when you realized that this was how you wanted to spend your time and what it looked like for you to kind of start down this path of researching connection and friendship.
KV 11:36 So one important thing to clarify is that in my life, I've been working for a long time, I'm older than I look, and every corporate job I've ever had has left me feeling like a part of me was missing from that job, whether it was my skill, set my passion, my ability. Like, there was always a piece that got left out when I walked into the office. And the part, you know what I've been doing these, particularly design jobs over the last seven, eight years or so, the part that's passionate about facilitating real life experiences for human connection didn't fit in to those job descriptions. And so I do that stuff in my free time, do it on nights and weekends, because that's part of what also brings me alive. I've sometimes worked full-time as a designer and in the past before that. I've also sometimes worked full time as a facilitator or program director. But one thing I've also always done in my own time is to write and to write for my own audiences, to write for my own community. And so, you know, it's been really important to me, ever since I got out of college, like, I made this deal with myself that no matter where I worked, or what I was doing, I was always going to have a project outside of work that I could have total creative control over. That was, like, the deal I made myself to participate in capitalism. I was like, "I'm creative, and if I have to use my creativity to do this capitalism thing, I'm also going to do some of it just for me." And so the journey that I've been on lately has been one that lets me combine all of my skills, all of the things I care about, you know, design facilitation, writing, all of that gets to be included now. I don't have to leave any part of that out. And so in creating this path for myself, it really just feels like not just total acceptance of myself, but also, like, a total expression of myself.
SWB 13:29 That's so powerful. And it's also rare, I think, for people to feel like they can find that. I mean, in so many conversations that are about, you know, "Should you love what you do or not love what you do?" Or like, "Do you love your job?" And I feel like those conversations are often very reductive because they're not getting at what you're talking about, which is, like, actually feeling the full sense of who you are can be expressed in ways that feel good to you in the work that you do and in your life. And then I'm curious, how did you figure that out? I mean, I wish there was just a secret recipe you could tell everyone, and everybody can have it. But I recognize it's not so simple. But how did you figure that out for yourself?
KV 14:07 I believe in following your curiosity. And I've even had this conversation with one of my mentees who have been mentoring for, gosh, probably 15 years, and we've had a lot of conversations as she's gotten older, and graduated college, and gotten into a working life. And she would ask me, she'd be like, "Kat like, people say follow your passion. Like what do you mean? Like, what do you think, like, should I follow my passion? What does that even mean?" And what I would tell her is like, follow your curiosity, follow the thing that you can't stop thinking about and that you feel pretty sure you will always be curious to learn more about, because then you're never gonna get bored. And follow your passion is very simple. It sounds beautiful. And there's a lot of, like, good things in there. But it also gets complicated when you combine your passion, again, with capitalism, and you're like, "What's going on here? Is this for me, or is this for, like, the money man?" You know?
SWB 14:56 Yeah.
KV 14:56 And I think there is a great deal of benefit in keeping that separate. I think it's useful to have some passions that are purely for joy and not to pay your light bill. When it comes to finding work that's going to light you up or, like, create a path that you feel so excited to walk down, for me, that has been following my curiosity. And so in this case, my curiosity around community, and friendship, and connection, and belonging are the things that have never gotten old. That just does not get old to me. And it's something I've always cared about. And it's something I really can't foresee stopping caring about. Even if, like, 10 years from now, I'm doing something completely different, and I pay my light bill a different way, I'm still gonna care about belonging and connection.
SWB 15:40 Was there a moment where you kind of realized that this was possible, that it was possible for that to be both how you pay your light bill, and what lights you up?
KV 15:51 So when I was getting ready to release We Should Get Together, I knew that there were things I did not know. And when I was writing the book, I read a quote that was really inspiring. And it said, you know, your book has two lives: it has the life it has with you, while you're working on it, while it's just yours, and then once you give it to the world, it has a completely different life. And you cannot always predict exactly what's going to happen. Of course, you can set things up to help it have a successful life. And I did those things. But there's also some unpredictable things. Like, you don't know. And when I released the book, very quickly, like, I would say, within a week or two, it became very clear that the world was asking me to do this in a bigger way. And the way that I could understand that is that with this reception, I was getting requests to do certain things that I could not say yes to if I stayed in my day job. You know, like, if people are like, "Come over here. Can you teach us about this? Will you teach a workshop over here? Will you speak to this group about that? Like, we need your time, Kat, and we need it during the day." Like, writing a book I could do at night and on the weekend. But I can't engage with the rest of the world just at night, and on the weekend in this particular way. And so it became very clear, I was like, I either have to say no to these opportunities that are literally connected to everything I have to give and that I want to give, or I could say no to my day job. And I chose to say yes to what the world was asking me to do. And so that's how I, like, "knew" that I was going to take this step was, like, the invitation was there, and the door appeared.
SWB 17:36 Yeah. And I know that sometimes people have those moments and talk themselves out of it. Right? Because that feels risky. There's an unknown, and whatever is right now is more known. How did you choose to step into that unknown space? Like, what did you have to kind of work through to get there?
KV 17:55 I'm also not someone who all my life was like, "I can't wait to work for myself and be an entrepreneur." Like, I would meet people like that over the years. They're like, "I don't want to work somewhere. I want to work for myself." And they would, like, say that with such conviction. And I was like, really? Like, how do you know? Like, for me, it was just, I could finally understand what those people were talking about when it was like, "Oh, there's a thing I am on fire to do. And lucky me, the world is asking me to do that exact thing." That's how I know. And that's when I was, like, saying yes wasn't saying yes to, like, "Okay, so I'm gonna, like, do my paperwork and start a business now." It's almost like the Ikigai, you know, that diagram of, like, "What you want to do, what the world is asking for, what people need, and, like, what lights you up." It's like, all the things lock in. And I was like, "I'm gonna say yes to this. I can't not say yes to this."
SWB 18:47 Yes. Okay, and so then now I know that in your work, you talk a lot about friendship and, sort of, personal relationships, and I know you also end up working with lots of organizations and talking about things like loneliness and disconnection at work. And I'd love to dig into that a little bit. Can we talk a little bit about work loneliness?
KV 19:07 Absolutely. And I think it's important that we talk about it because it matters. And it doesn't get brought up enough. And that is a very costly mistake, literally in dollars and in terms of also human health and thriving. So when we look at the cost of just, say, voluntary employee turnover in the United States, like, people, like, quit their job on purpose, right? I mean, they didn't get laid off, didn't get fired, they're like, "You know what, I'm out of here."
SWB 19:36 Yeah.
KV 19:36 Voluntary turnover cost the US economy a trillion dollars in 2019 alone. And this happens because of the high cost of recruiting people, replacing them, and retraining lost employees. And one of the big contributors that leads people to choose to leave their job is feeling unconnected, lonely, and uncared about at their work—not feeling that sense of, like, safety, trust. support, and connection. And when people have a higher sense of belonging and connection at work, not only do they stick around, but they produce higher quality work, they're more likely to recommend that company to other people, they're half as likely to get poached by another company. And they also feel, like, greater personal health and fulfillment in addition to the higher quality work that they produce on the job. Again, when people are feeling disconnected at work, not feeling psychologically safe, if they're dealing certainly with any kind of bias or discrimination, that's like a recipe for feeling lonely at work. Certainly, if it's not a very diverse team, and they stick out because they're the "diverse person," like, let's not call people "diverse" like that anymore, please. These are things that lead to feeling alienated or marginalized, or if you feel like a team of one, or if there's ethical, like, there's so many things that could go awry and that leave somebody feeling disconnected. And they're like, "You know, what, I'm out of here."
SWB 20:55 Yeah.
KV 20:56 This is why it's very important. Like, on a scale of, like, "because we care about people." and also because, like, straight up, some people care about money. And if you care about either one of these things, you should really want people to feel a sense of belonging and connection at work.
SWB 21:10 Yeah. So what are some of the things that organizations and managers need to be thinking about when it comes to connection, or maybe reconnection right now? Maybe there's two questions here. And one is, like, what should we be thinking about in terms of creating more connection and creating a place where people don't feel so disconnected and lonely? And then also, like, specifically, in this moment, as we're talking about coming out of this extended period of, you know, some, like, rushed work-from-home setup becoming permanent. And whenever people are kind of coming back to those plans and thinking about, like, "Let's get back to business as usual," or whatever it is that they're saying, yeah, what should they be thinking about?
KV 21:51 Okay, so the first part of that in terms of, like, when you said, like, "How can we do it to help people feel more connected?"
SWB 21:55 Yeah.
KV 21:57 I'm gonna put a little caveat on that, and I'm going to say, I think it's more important to focus on psychological safety than making sure people get "more connection." And with that, the bridge to the second half of this question is, like, I think it's important to not dictate for other people how much connection they "should be having" or what "looks like connection." Because even before the pandemic, there was a lot of very dicey stuff going on in the realm of like, "Mandatory Fun."
SWB 22:29 Yes.
KV 22:30 Because that looks like connection. And that looks like "Oh, good, like, more connection." And that looks like people are having fun, but let's be real, some people were like, gritting their teeth, and being like, "Get me out of here. You know, I either got to get home to my kids," or "I'm an introvert, I don't want to do this forced fun thing." So, like, already, a lot of those strategies were not so successful because they failed to take into account the fact that different people like different things. And most people don't like being told, "You're having fun Thursday, from 5 to 7. Now show up."
SWB 23:04 Yeah.
KV 23:05 That's not really what fun feels like. So it's really important, I think, for companies to have a little bit more of a human-focused, like, empathetic approach and to, like, be inquisitive. Like, ask people to play a role in determining what they would like to experience. Like, not dictating what is safe for them, or what is enjoyable for them, that could backfire because we have different needs. And so being flexible, and allowing people to opt in or opt out of something based on what they really need and what they really want. And if they specify there's something they'd like that you're not providing yet, like, get a budget for that, since you're not paying, like, that high priced rent on all those floors of an office building. And when it comes to saying, okay, like, now if the work-from-home thing is lasting longer, or there's some hybrid thing that's going on, ask people to say like, "What would really help make this a successful experience for you where you could feel supported at work and supported around having a balanced life?" Help them get those needs met because it's only going to lead to them feeling more cared about, more supported, and it's gonna be harder for them to want to quit that job or leave because they're like, "Man, my company really takes care of me. They really care."
SWB 24:16 Yeah, I like what you said about psychological safety before connection in the sense that, you know, I've heard 7,000 conversations about, like, “bring your whole self to work.” I mean, I remember being asked this question during a speaking event that's like, "What companies are really nailing that right now, this culture of ‘bring your whole self to work?’" And my answer was like, "I would stop asking whether your culture is one where people are bringing their whole selves to work. And I would start asking, what are we doing to make it safe for people to decide which parts of themselves to bring to work and which they don't want to." And I think you're really getting at this idea that it's, like, connection looks different for different people. And safety is when you get a choice in deciding how you can act in ways that you feel safe and good connecting.
KV 25:02 Exactly.
SWB 25:03 What are some ways that we can be sure that if we're leaders or managers in an organization, we have some level of power, that we're able to kind of honor people's boundaries in that process?
KV 25:14 Especially with the transition to so many people working in their home and not necessarily being able to disconnect as easily from work, I think it's important to allow people who may be feeling a need for greater boundaries to unplug if they really need to unplug. You know, for some people who do want to be buddy-buddy with all their coworkers, like, they're looking at work as the primary source of friendship, or connection in their life, if they want to stay online, you know, at night or on the weekend, or spend their their time that way, or even in person. Like, if they want to do that, fine. Support them doing that, and let there not be repercussions for the people who are like, "I really need to unplug. I really need separation between work and the rest of my life." And to let that be okay, you know? Because there's such a pressure to feel like, "Oh, well, I'm only gonna be able to, like, get a good review if I show up to this thing that has nothing to do with my job." And it's on a Saturday or something. You know, it's just like—
SWB 26:17 Yeah.
KV 26:17 Let there really be a separation there, and let people have the option to make use of that separation without any impact on their work evaluation. Because if it's not affecting their work performance, then it's extraneous, you know, and it should not be a part of the formula that's used to judge and evaluate people.
SWB 26:37 Yeah, yeah. I'm wondering what are some of the flags that would indicate that people's performance is being graded according to, like, how much they are buddying up to the team? Like, are there things that you see that maybe organizations should watch for and be like, "Okay, how do we get this out of our performance process?"
KV 26:55 Well, certainly, if there's any kind of like, you know, buddy-buddy, bro culture where it's like only the people who like will go drinking together at night, like, are the ones who get picked and assigned to the most desirable projects, and get promoted, and all of that kind of thing. Like, you can tell pretty quickly if there's an interior clique that's just helping each other. get ahead. So that's kind of a glaring red flag.
SWB 27:20 Absolutely. And I think we've all been on those teams or seen those teams. Yeah, where all the big decisions get made during those kinds of social events that are extremely exclusive, right, in terms of who can be there and who is welcomed there. You know, I think a lot of us have been on the outside of those and felt that pain.
KV 27:38 Yeah.
SWB 27:38 If there was one thing that you want people who, again, have some power in their organizations to really be thinking about, you know, as a takeaway from this episode, what would you want them to be more aware of and intentional about right now?
KV 27:54 Well, building on this question, too, of, like, how to create both successful bonds at work and attending to people's need for connection, like, there is a fair amount of research out there that already shows that workplace relationships are the strongest when people can cooperatively achieve a goal together with a high amount of autonomy. And that is, like, kind of a textbook definition of successful work. Like, we work together to accomplish a goal, and we get to do so have a high degree of autonomy so we get to feel like we did the thing, we were not just following orders and checking boxes. And so if you can support your people in actually having that experience on the clock, it is likely they're going to feel that sense of connection. It is likely they're going to be producing higher quality work, and they're going to feel better about it. And then with that, you get the overlaps between the belonging, the sense of mutual benefit, healthy bond, and then also healthy, good work. And so I think anybody who's in a position of leadership now should think about how they can support people in having that experience at work.
SWB 29:04 Yes, Kat, if people are listening in and they'd like to, I don't know, maybe read your books or bring you in to talk to their organizations about this, where should they go for that?
KV 29:14 Yeah, so they can reach out to me. My website, if they want to send a speaking request or something like that, they can head to https://www.katvellos.com. If they want to hear about my books or my events about adult friendship they can head to https://weshouldgettogether.com. I have a whole bunch of talks and events going on all the time, and I would love to connect with anyone out there who wants to hear about this either in your company, or organization, or any associations you're a part of. Because this is the thing, like, this is what I care about. And it's this, again, the combination of, like, using our intention as designers, as people who care about humans to create as many positive outcomes for thriving in all of these different settings, right, at work and in your personal life.
SWB 29:56 Yes, and I love this emphasis on thriving because so much of the conversation this past year has been around survival. And I know that's not the same as thriving, and I think more of us deserve to be getting back to that place.
KV 30:10 Absolutely.
SWB 30:11 Kat, thank you so much for this so far. This has been so great.
KV 30:14 Thank you to you, Sara. I really appreciate it.
SWB 30:25 Okay, Kat, it is time for our advice segment. So are you ready to answer a couple questions to help out our listeners who are maybe feeling some of that disconnection right now?
KV 30:35 Yeah. Let's do it. Let's dive in.
SWB 30:36 Okay, so first up, if somebody's listening in, and they're really resonating with the sense of loneliness, whether at work or in their personal life, what's something that they can do right now to start focusing on reconnection?
KV 30:50 Good question. So first thing I usually recommend is to hit the pause button and actually look inward. When we think about connection, we often turn our lens outward and be like, "Oh, like what's outside of me? Who's outside of you that I can connect with?" And it's really important first to look inside and say, like, what is it that you really need right now? And what is missing? If you can wave a magic wand and have the kind of connection you want, what would that look like, and how would it be integrated into your life? And the way you answer that question helps you determine what to do and where to go when you then turn your lens outward and seek to cultivate that connection externally with other people.
SWB 31:32 Yeah, I think it's such wonderful advice for so many situations, right, like, to look inward before looking outward. And it's also really hard. And I know that, you know, lots of people who are facing some of these feelings, they're also struggling with feelings of, like, loss or a sense of sort of grief over, you know, the loss of the life they had before. And that can also turn into things like some self-doubt, or self-judgment, or feeling unworthy of connection. And I'm curious, what would you say to somebody who's struggling through that right now?
KV 32:03 Yeah. So I first want to acknowledge definitely any sense of loss or grief that may be there for, as you said, the loss of the life and lifestyle you may have had before. And also the fact that in this pandemic, people have also lost loved ones, lost friends, lost people that have been a part of their lives. And so there is real grief around that, and it's important to take time to acknowledge that and to know that that's deserving of your attention. And there are ways to give some time, and attention, and care towards those relationships as well. Even if they're no longer here. And then moving forward to say, like, "How do I get my connection needs met?" Again, with doing the work internally, whether it's just closing your eyes and listening, or if you're a journaler, like, get out some paper and say, like, "What did this last year of disconnection teach me about what kind of connection I want in my life? What did I realize is how I want friendship, and community woven into my life?"And get really specific, like, use your senses. What does it look like? What does it smell like, taste like, touch like? You know, and then see from there, what are the opportunities, you have to cultivate that connection with the people in your life? It could be people who are already a part of your life. It could be people who used to be a part of your life, and for whatever reason you're disconnected now or separated or you drifted apart. Or it could be people you have not yet met yet. But if they like the same things you like, where can you go where those people congregate and get together that you can just easily tap into a community of folks who seek the same thing you seek?
SWB 33:37 Mmm.
KV 33:38 So one last thing I wanted to say with that is there's a really high degree of success around reconnecting with someone who was previously a part of your life, but for whatever reason have drifted away, or where the context of your life may have changed, but that feeling of love and trust is still there, that feeling of when you see each other again, whether it's in person or online, you're both like, "Oh my god, it's you. I'm so excited to see you." That's a good sign that maybe you could rekindle a closer connection with that person, if all you've had is just a pause in that relationship or some distance. It's a lot easier to to get close to someone you used to be close with than to start fresh with somebody new, so don't give up on those people who drifted away. If they liked you then, and you still like them and there's a good chance they still like you.
SWB 34:22 Oh, that can be so hard to remember when you get stuck in your head though.
KV 34:26 And if you get stuck in your head, you know, I talk about this in the book. I have a whole chapter in there about awkwardness because when people get stuck in their head around awkwardness, or self-doubt, or self-worth questions. It can turn into this, like, spiral where it's like, "Oh my god, am I good enough? Am I cool enough right now? Did I say the funny enough thing?" And then this over-focus on the self and this judgment on the self not only makes it harder to connect with another person, but it comes off as more awkward too. You know, so if you're worried about being awkward, and you’re spending your time focusing on, "Am I being awkward or not," it's going to feel a little awkward. But instead, if you put your focus on the other person, and I talk about some different strategies you can use in the book, I've interviewed some therapists about this, as well, is by focusing on the other person using your curiosity to learn more about them, to put your attention, and including your senses on the space around you, like, the things you can see, and, smell, and hear, and touch, and all those sorts of things, then it's a lot harder to also focus on judging yourself really harshly. So focus on that, and give yourself a little bit of a break, and give yourself some compassion as well. And if it feels really awkward right now, like, it's okay, because guess what, it probably feels really awkward to everybody. SNL actually had a really funny skit about this last week, where it was like, the first party after a pandemic, and every single person in the party is like, "I forgot out how to talk to people. I don't know what to say right now. I think I just asked the same question three times in a row." And it's, like, hilarious, but it's, like, completely relatable. And I think if you say to someone, "I'm super rusty at this, like, just give me a little bit of leeway," like, they will understand. This is the moment we're all going through.
SWB 36:09 Super relatable. You know, I went to somebody's backyard with a small handful of people the other day, you know, and I was like, "Oh, gosh, this is too many people," which is more than one. That is not a feeling I was used to having, and then I was, "Am I talking too much? Am I not talking enough?" And I, yeah, I really felt that rustiness very deeply. And so you know, as something to close on. I think that everybody could probably use a little bit more joy right now. How can listeners approach this process with some joyfulness?
KV 36:45 I love that question because we do need more joy. We need more laughter, we need more play. I was also listening to an amazing podcast other day about how in adulthood we go through this laughter trough where, like, between our 30s and our 70s, like, we laugh less than we do when we're very young, very old. So I'd say, like, seek the things that let you laugh. Seek the people that make you laugh, whether it's listening to a certain comedian, or inviting a friend to listen to like a really funny podcast or a show that you love, like, laugh about it together. And you can also invite laughter and joy into your life by soliciting suggestions and requests from people in your life. So I did this actually on my birthday last month where I just told people for my birthday, like, "I just want to laugh a lot. So please send me, text me, like, your favorite funniest, like, YouTube clips, TikTok videos, like, funny movie recommendations. Like, I just need some levity." You know, it's been a long year. Invite your community be a part of that because anytime we share laughter It's another way to feel closer too.
SWB 37:48 I love that. That is such a great note to end on. More laughter, everyone. Kat, thank you so much for being on today. It's been such a joy to have you.
KV 37:57 Thank you so much for having me, Sara. This was really fun.
SWB 38:00 Oh my gosh. Okay, everybody pick up "We Should Get Together: the Secret to Cultivating Better Friendships" and "Connected From Afar: a Guide for Staying Close When You're Far Away." And definitely go check out Kat Vellos anywhere that you can find her, obviously.
SWB 38:17 All right, friends, it is time for You've Got This. That's our final segment where we take something our guests left us with and explore how to bring it into our lives. And so this week, I want to go back to right where we ended with Kat: joy. Joy. Because I will be honest with you, I have had a really awful week. I got some bad news yesterday, and I've been feeling down. So joy doesn't feel super available to me right now. It feels a little hard to access that. And I bet I'm not alone in that. I think a lot of us have been treating joy like "a nice to have," like a backburner item for I don't know, 15 months or so, maybe even longer. Like, who has time for joy right now, you know? There's always something more important than joy. But the thing is, I want to foster some joy because I think we need it. I think we need it now. And I think we need it always. Because joy is what allows us to face all of our challenges with some rejuvenation, with a fresh perspective, with new energy. Joy gives us some space to feel good, and I think we all need to have moments where we feel good, where we can relax, where we can be at ease. And I think joy is something that we have to cultivate, we have to grow it. It's not something that will necessarily find us, particularly if we're in dark places. And so for me, I'm going to be asking myself some questions this week, kind of reflecting a little bit on joy. And so I wanted to invite you to do the same. Here they are.
SWB 39:39 First one is when is the time when you really leaned into joy? What did that feel like? What conditions allowed you to do that? Okay, the second one is where are you holding back from allowing yourself to have joy right now? Where have you told yourself, you shouldn't feel joyful, or there's not space, or there's not time for that? And what's that costing you? What is it costing you to be not giving that to yourself? Third one is what would be different in your life if you were operating from a place of joy? What would shift, what would change? And the fourth one is what's the one thing you can do to create a small moment of joy for yourself this coming week? I'll post them up on https://www.activevoicehq.com/podcast too, and I can't wait to hear what you all come up with.
SWB 40:31 Well, that's it for this week's episode of Strong Feelings. I'm your host, Sara Wachter-Boettcher, and Strong Feelings is a production of Active Voice. Check us out at activevoicehq.com and you can get all the past episodes, show notes, and full transcripts of every episode at strongfeelings.co. This episode was recorded in south Philadelphia and produced by Emily Duncan. Our theme music is "Deprogrammed" by Philly's own Blowdryer. Check them out at blowdryer.bandcamp.com. Huge thanks to Kat Vellos for being our guest today, and thank you so much for listening in. If you liked it, don't forget to subscribe and rate us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. It really does help. See you next time. Bye.